Anybody see this?

Discussion in 'Coffee Table' started by wsbones, Dec 25, 2007.

  1. wsbones

    wsbones Beta Tester

    Merry Christmas All,

    Did anyone happen to see "The Star of Bethlehem" by Frederick A. Larson today (12/25) on Trinity Broadcasting Network? It was a great presentation (by a lawyer :() on astronomical phenomena and Bible clues relating to the mystery of the Star. One thing he talked about that I never thought of before was Rev 12 in relation to the constellations at the time of Jesus' birth. It's really obvious after you hear what he says.

    I enjoyed it so much I found the DVD on Amazon and ordered it for next year. He mentioned his website if you want to check it out.
    Gord likes this.
  2. jerrybouey

    jerrybouey Member

    I am not saying that this video isn't worth watching or is not overall good - but it concerns me that part of the presentation is based on determining what year Nisan 14th fell on a Friday - then basing info on that calculation. It is only Catholic and Protestant tradition that teaches a Good Friday - Jesus died on a Wednesday (or some serious Bible students may also argue a Thursday). This part is my opinion: I also don't believe Jesus was born in 2-4 B.C. (according to tradition and Bible criticism) - so the date there could very well be off too. My point, is that if your starting calculations are off, your conclusions will not be totally correct either.

    The website also indicates that the producer of this movie was also involved in the Passion of the Christ - Mel's Gibson's Catholic movie. Is the theology going to be off in this presentation too?
  3. wsbones

    wsbones Beta Tester

    That troubled me as well. He has a note in the FAQ on the website about it - saying basically that 3 days and 3 nights (idiomatically speaking) could mean parts of 3 days (Fri, Sat, Sun). :(

    I wish he would have considered that there was a "High Day" (John 19:31) that week that was also a Sabbath, so the Preparation would probably have been on a Wednesday. I wonder what astronomical phenomena he would have found by doing that?

    I like his approach using astronomical software to explore the skies and using the Bible clues to eliminate all but planetary phenomena. Of course, it could have been an angel (referred to as stars in Job and Rev), but that leaves science totally out of the picture.

    On balance I really liked it.
  4. jerrybouey

    jerrybouey Member

    I like the idea, and am intrigued by what this website may be trying to do - but it seems like some of their presentation is going to be off, because their starting points are off.

    Now the publisher or author probably wouldn't answer this, but it would be interesting if, after you watched the presentation, you asked them how their calculations would differ if they used a Wednesday crucifixion instead. Would it still work, or would it throw off their series and presentation?
  5. Gord

    Gord Beta Tester

    I did too. I thought is was well done. I discovered the CD online while I was browsing the sight
  6. marty

    marty Beta Tester

    I saw the program and enjoyed it very much! It reminded me that there is so much that we don't 'see' or understand through our smokey glass! I find it encouraging that people are actually pursuing the evidence as laid out in the Bible. I wonder how that effects Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. What are your thoughts on that, Bones? Do you think God will allow us to scientifically prove that everything in the Bible is accurate? At any rate, with so many attacks on the Bible, it's refreshing to see someone working to prove its accuracy! :)
  7. wsbones

    wsbones Beta Tester

    First, I definitely believe Heb 11:1. Things that are not seen produce evidence that increase our faith. The wind bloweth where it listeth(Joh 3: 8 ). The light comes on by some magic. etc. We believe in those things. Belief leads to hope - in the case of Christ, a sure Hope.

    I believe in the Bible account of the Star. The evidence may eventually be found in science. True science is in total agreement with the Bible since God is the author of both (omniScience - God knows all). Science as humans practice it is trial and error. It's alway catching up. It's the observed discrepancies that allow new hypotheses to be formed and tested. Newton's laws, a good as they are, need adjusting for effects of relativity. As new capabilities come along, new discoveries are made. Even so, it won't be enough to convince the skeptic - Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

    I don't think science will ever be able to prove everything or disprove anything in the Bible.
  8. marty

    marty Beta Tester

    Muchas gracias, amigo. :)
  9. MichaelRankin

    MichaelRankin Member

    Here are a couple of reasons why I believe that Jesus was born around 4 BC.
    This is certainly not doctrine, but the meanderings of an old man.

    1) It is historically believed that Herod the Great died around 4 BC so Jesus would have to have been born before then.

    2) It is also historically believed that Herod started the restoration of the temple around 20 BC. Luke 3:23 tells us Jesus was 30 years old when His ministry began. In John 2:20 the Jews tell Jesus the temple has been under construction for 46 years. So if the temple reconstruction began around 20 BC and has been going on for 46 years, it must then be 26 AD. Jesus is 30, subtract that from 26 AD and you get to 4 BC as the year of his birth.

    Now if the above is correct and it may not be, it brings about an interesting "coincidence". If Jesus began His ministry in 26 AD and it continued for 3 and a half years until He was crucified that would mean He died at the beginning of the passover in 30 AD. Josephus writes that the temple was destroyed at the beginning of the passover in 70 AD. That would be exactly 40 years to the day after the Crucifixion of Christ.
  10. jerrybouey

    jerrybouey Member

    And what would be the significance of the temple being destroyed exactly 40 years later? I know some people think a Bible generation is 40 years, but truly there is only one generation that ever fit that anyway - those that wandered in the wilderness.
  11. MichaelRankin

    MichaelRankin Member

    The significance, in the general scheme of things, probably not much, but it's a nice round number, it's to the day and it makes me happy when that happens.

    Now I'm not sure where they get 40 years as being a generation from. If you look at Numbers 14:29 you see that it applies to those 20 years old and older. So it seems to me that would make a generation about 60 years, not 40. Which brings up another question. If God is only going to punish those 20 years old and up, is the age of accountability much older than commonly believed?
  12. wsbones

    wsbones Beta Tester

    Here's a couple thoughts:

    Mt 1:17 says there are 42 generations from Abraham to Jesus. 2000/42 ~= 50 yrs/ gen.

    I like this idea:) Mr 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. If "this generation" started in 1948 when Israel came into the land, then when would the last person born in 1948 pass? Maybe someone born in 1948 might live to 114 so all these things would be fulfilled when that person passed away - say around or before 2062.

    A generation does not pass when the average generation length is fulfilled, right?
  13. MichaelRankin

    MichaelRankin Member

    Thanks for pointing that out to me.

    You would be absolutely correct.
  14. RevTim

    RevTim Beta Tester

    Very interesting thread.
  15. I have even heard a few scientist state it could've been a comet which appeared at that time. I may be able to research and find more info but reading this passage and referring to the link in Sword searcher (FBN) it seems like it could of been.
    Mt 2:9
    ? When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

    Mt 2:9
    Went before them; in their journey from Jerusalem to Bethlehem. Stood over where the young child was; so that they were guided by it to the exact spot.

    Just my thoughts I'm not stating it as fact, but as a thought only God knows.
  16. Eric

    Eric Beta Tester

  17. Johnny NL

    Johnny NL Active Member

    I would say indeeeeed.... it doesn't take much thinking, to see that the fig tree parabol is quit a very BIG POLAROID pic of what we are living now??? .... does it? ???
    Amen to The LORD JESUS, (john 14:29).....

    PS: Man! do I love THE SCRIPTURES...... <:}}}><
  18. Jeffery

    Jeffery Member

    As I'm unsure how they came to Christ's ministry lasting 3 to 3 1/2 years, I tend toward a 30 AD crucifixion date. Jesus used the story of Jonah as the Sign to that Generation. Nineveh was given 40 days to repent and they did. Israel did not, and was destroyed 40 years later. As far as a generation being forty years; in Genesis 15:13 it mentions 400 years of servitude in Egypt and that is considered four generations in Genesis 15:16.
  19. Truckerboy

    Truckerboy Member

    The number 40 is used in the Bible to signify trials, testing and/or judgement. This would mean that the destruction of the temple was God's judgement on the people for their continuing disobedience and rejection.
    marty likes this.
  20. tony bones

    tony bones Member

    Ouch. I hate to join the discussion at such a late date but since Isaiah 28 reigns as the sole interpreter of the Scriptures we can see that by being as the Bereans we search the Scriptures and find that the "star" of Bethlehem was an angel. This is quite evident because the star moved as they followed it.

    Matt. 2:7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
    8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
    9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
    10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.

    Re 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

    The exact identity of this angel is given as we see it has led the wise men(no number mentioned hence the "three" myth) to the spot, we see a more personal interaction with the shepherds of the fields, signifying Christ as the great and good shepherd:

    Luke 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
    9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

    Luke 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
    14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

    This cross-refers to:

    Heb. !:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

    We see that no astronomical phenomena occurred but the work of angels in guiding, declaring, and glorifying the birth of Israel's messiah and the world's Savior did.
    john.a and Jeffery like this.