Tribes of the 12 Disciples

Discussion in 'Bible, Doctrine, and Other Topics' started by terrpn, Nov 3, 2008.

  1. terrpn

    terrpn Active Member

    Have a question.., query for folk that are more scholarly than myself. I'm big on types, shadows, etc. and have been trying to find maybe a connection to the particular tribes of each of the 12 disciples..........and perhaps did each chosen disciple represent one of the 12 tribes of Israel? Any help :idea: would be appreciated.

    Judas is interesting because as the son of perdition, we know that Dan was not included in the 144,000....................:?:

    At least am hoping that someone knows the tribes per say of each of the 12 even if there is not a link.

    Thanks,
    Wes
  2. James Taylor

    James Taylor Active Member

    I Dont Have A Real Clue But I Was Just Thinking Off The Top Of My Head. If There Was A Direct Connection Between The 12 Disiples And The Twelve Tribes (blood Line), Then The Jews Would Have Claimed Salvation By The Deciples. It Would Have Been Like The Abraham Thing All Over Again. But I Feel Quite Sure That The Number Of Disiples Do Represent The 12 Tribes.
  3. terrpn

    terrpn Active Member

    Interesting...........never looked at in that sense. I agree and am rehearsed as far as the 12 disciples representing the 12 tribes and of course we can take the #12 and get all sorts of types from it............ Still though being curious if anyone has ever seen or heard maybe if the scriptures somewhere tie-link the 12 disciples to a particular tribe or maybe the typology just stops at 12 disciples representing a "figure" of the 12 tribes.

    Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin-- Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin............, and we all known that Christ was from Judah-- Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

    Thanks for your input:!:.
    Wes
  4. RevTim

    RevTim Beta Tester

    I am not aware of any one who argues this as a type.

    I also believe Paul was the replacement for Judas, chosen directly by Jesus, as all his apostles were.
  5. wsbones

    wsbones Beta Tester

    They are linked in the New Jerusalem by the 12 gates and 12 foundations:
    (See Rev 21:12,14). Perhaps they are also linked in the 24 elders in the throne room (Re 4:4,10; 5:8,14; 11:16; 19:4). I don't know any way that the Bible specifies which tribe corresponds to which apostle. There were actually 13 tribes including Levi and 13 apostles including Paul.

    It's an interesting question. I don't know any other Biblical answer.
  6. wsbones

    wsbones Beta Tester

    Mat 19:28 also links the apostles with the tribes as their judges in the regeneration.
  7. terrpn

    terrpn Active Member

    So it looks like that we have the 12 chosen disciples only as a figure, type of the 12 tribes (+ 1) as the Bible does not qualify their genealogy.

    Mt. 19:28 was one of the verses I was trying to put my finger on............thanks!

    Interesting factoid about New Jerusalem as well............

    Quote: There were actually 13 tribes including Levi and 13 apostles including Paul.

    Right......
    • OLD COVENANT: Israel-- x12tribes/Law, etc., etc.
    • NEW COVENANT: Paul-- x1/Church; Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,; Grace, Apostle to the Gentiles, etc., etc.
    Appreciate the input.

    Thanks,
    Wes
  8. DTregembo

    DTregembo Member

    It is very interesting about the twelve. All were Galileans except one who was a Jew - Judas. Remember when Peter denied the Lord in Matt 26:73 they knew he was one of them because his speech betrayed that he was a Galilean. Judas' last name was Iscariot which means a man from Kerioth in the territory of Judah. So you do not know the exact tribes the 12 come from, but you can find out Judas was from Judah, the other 11 were from Israel. Remember the Lord said He was looking for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Judah was not lost sheep since they had not been cut off, but Israel had been cast off much earlier for her idolatry and was never restored. Most of the Lord's ministry was in Israel's territory until it was time to die, then He went up to Judah, to Jerusalem to the cross. That is part of what is meant by the Kingdom of God being taken from them (Judah) and given to a people bringing forth the fruits there of - the people who were not a people (Israel). Anyway - my two cents worth!
  9. Rev J

    Rev J Member

    Actually, Judas was replaced by Matthias, not Paul. See Acts 1:15-26.

    Judas was probably from the tribe of Judah, and some scholars believe that Peter, Andrew, and Phillip were from (East) Manasseh, due to their habitation.
  10. RevTim

    RevTim Beta Tester

    Matthias was chosen by lots. True that they asked God to guide the lot, but still he was not directly chosen by Jesus, as all the others of the 12 were. Paul was. So for my money that settles it.

    Interesting dichotomy I hadn't considered before: Jesus was the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, who came to die on the cross, become sin for believers so we might be made the righteousness of Christ... And Judas the man of sin was also from Judah. That is interesting. But not sure it would be more than that. Might be worth some time of study and consideration, though.
  11. PeterAV

    PeterAV Member

    Some of the Disciples were brothers, so NO, the twelve do not represent each individual tribe.
    Ironically, there were 15 tribes mentioned as there were 15 Apostles mentioned. Go figure.
    *******
    PeterAV
    Every word of God is pure:
  12. Jason W. Elder

    Jason W. Elder Active Member

    I don't think we know much about Judas, but I'm reasonably sure the Bible doesn't record him being "called" by the Lord like some of the other disciples. I know he was commissioned right along with the other 11 but it seems like he just kinda gravitated towards the ministry (you know the type lol)
  13. cheadlee

    cheadlee Member

    Original Twelve
    1. Simon - Naphtali
    2. Andrew - Naphtali
    3. James - Zebulun
    4. John - Zebulun
    5. Philip - Asher
    6. Bartholomew - Issachar
    7. Thomas - Judah
    8. Matthew - Issachar
    9. James - Manasseh
    10. Thadius - Judah
    11. Simon the Zealot - Ephraim
    12. Judas Iscariot - Dan
  14. RevTim

    RevTim Beta Tester

    Where or how did you come up with list? Again I find this interesting but never studied it out.
  15. dan b

    dan b Member

    I've studied it to the point that it's making me bursting with joy!

    The sons of Israel were also brothers in pairs. By comparing the correspondences here is how you can identify which Apostle carries on each tribe of Israel in the resurrection.Matt.19;28 Hos.6;2 Rev.20;4,6

    To find and identify the correspondence between the Sons and the Apostles we need to be fariliar with the sons of Israel, their birth orders and circumstances and the prophesies about them by Jacob and by Moses. Gen.49 Deut.33

    The twelve brothers were of four mothers. First Leah had four sons, but Rachel was the prefered wife. So she was "first" in a way because she was chosen by Jacob to marry her first. He gave her his heart first.(more on this later)

    After Leah bare 4 sons, then Rachel's maid Bilhah bare two sons/brothers for her. Then Leah sent in her maid Zilpah who bare sons/two brothers for her, Gad and Asher. Then Leah herself bare another two sons/two brothers. Then finally Rachel herself bare two sons/to brothers.

    Yes, the poster who recognized that they were all brothers had it right!
  16. Wayfarer

    Wayfarer Member

    About Matthias who was chosen by lot and that the apostles prayed and asked God about it : this triggers a thought in my mind : did the apostles include an EMPTY LOT ? This would give "God a chance" to negate the whole thing if He disagrees with this "lot" thing, by throwing up the EMPTY LOT !
    If all the lots were filled with names of the apostles' choice, then they are "tying God's hands" (if that is possible :).
    (Sometimes our prayers may be presumptuous.... ? )
  17. Van

    Van Member

    I had this same question and am glad to find some answers here. I think the fact that some disciples were brothers indicates that they could not have been one from each tribe. Is it possible that Christians are spiritual members of the apostles' tribes? Is that why there are 24 elders in heaven - 12 ruling the tribes of Israel and 12 ruling the "tribes" of the apostles (the Christian church)? I hope and pray for the tribes of Israel to come home!
  18. felixnelson

    felixnelson Member

    Just to add my 2 cents worth -
    The way it is put in Acts:
    Ac 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
    Ac 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
    Ac 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
    Ac 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

    They decided that Judas "office" needed to be filled, made the guidelines or qualifications, selected two and cast lots to see which of the two would be selected by "GOD" - none of which was commanded by the Lord or directed by the Holy Spirit AND that could be contrasted with the way the selection was made for the mission field later:
    Ac 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

    So I understand that the decision to appoint Matthias was wrong and he is not the 12th apostle, though the other 11 apostles might have thought so.
    wsbones likes this.
  19. TerriP

    TerriP Active Member

    I do not quite understand your thoughts on this.

    Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

    And to quote Albert Barnes, "...the use of the lot was regarded as a solemn appeal to God, for his direct interference in cases which they could not themselves decide."

    Adam Clarke: "...The brethren agreed that the matter should be determined by lot; the lots were cast into the urn; God was entreated to direct the choice; one drew out a lot; the person whose name was inscribed on it was thereby declared to be the object of God's choice, and accordingly associated with the disciples."

    Or am I misunderstanding your comment completely which has been known to happen :)

    Thanks, FelixNelson.
  20. terrpn

    terrpn Active Member

    I did not know anyone was still interested in this topic, so I kind of left alone until I saw some recent posts. Now this is not bullet proof, but it is not just conjecture either- quite the interesting subject. Hopefully it is not to long and/or toothy.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    To answer my own question or post……….it is clear as usual the Bible is its best commentary. In regards to which of the “12 tribes” the disciples were from after reading is a little clearer; however I would still like to see the references from an earlier post where it was stated the individual tribes as it pertains to each of the 12 disciples? It is or was thought that the 12 disciples mapped the 12 tribes of Israel, however while I see some claims I see cannot find proof……….. mostly hearsay. We should not forget than some of the twelve were brothers as well. There is a figurative parallel between the 12 tribes and the 12 disciples, but they couldn't each have literally been from a different tribe, as there were at least two pairs were brothers (Andrew and Peter, James and John…..). So from what I have gathered there could at the most only a total of 10 tribes represented if we were to try and parallel the 12 tribes of Israel to the 12 disciples, which would mean that analogy does "not work."

    MOST of the people around Galilee in Jesus day were Benjamites who were more prevalent in the north around Galilee. There were Samaritans and Edomites who lived mostly in the South among the people of the tribe of Judah. The tribe of Benjamin in Christ's day were known as Galileans, because they inhabited Palestine's most northerly province known as Galilee and was the place he chose. Many of the disciples sailed in the Sea of Galilee as well.

    They were distinct from the Jews of Judaea in the southern part of the country and were separated from them by the intervening territory of the Samaritans

    So the 12 Disciples of Christ, with only one exception can be possibly seen as of the tribe of Benjamin and that one exception was of the tribe of Judah-- Judas Iscariot, the only one that proved unfaithful, so the expressions Benjamites and Galilaeans would then be you could suggest synonymous. It will be recalled that Christ, after His resurrection, appeared to all His Apostles gathered together—all Benjamites (?)—and commissioned them to preach the Gospel among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem, and added :

    · Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

    · Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

    · Acts 2:5, 7 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

    Many knew the difference between the Jews of Judah and the Benjaminites. When Peter denied Christ, one said to Him,

    · Mark 14:70 And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto.

    · Luke 22:59 And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.

    Their speech and looks, appearance would qualify by scripture, etc. that they were different than the Jews from Judah. The people of Benjamin would look more like their brother Joseph than Judah.

    Of note…………Judas Iscariot's position was eventually filled by a Benjamite (Matthias), hence, in the end all the twelve chosen were Galileans (Benjamites?) as stated in Acts 2:7. You then cannot dodge the fact that the 12 (the circumcision) were also replaced……….. by a Benjamite, being Paul (uncircumcision- Gal. 2:7, Rom. 11:1).

    · Philippians 3:5 (KJV) Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

    I do not believe it is a coincidence that the name “Benjamin” means “son of my right hand.” It was the Jews of Judaea who rejected Christ and also not a coincidence that Judas was a half breed Edomite Jew from the tribe of Judah and a Moabite (Syria) from Kerioth the capital of Moab that was south of Juda toward Edom.
    • Joshua 15:25 (KJV) And Hazor, Hadattah, and Kerioth, and Hezron, which is Hazor,
    • Amos 2:2 But I will send a fire upon Moab, and it shall devour the palaces of Kerioth: and Moab shall die with tumult, with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet:

    Jesus Christ said…..

    · John 17:12 (KJV) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

    He was referring to Judas as the “son of perdition” which would then tie him to the “antichrist.”

    · 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    The Son of Perdition stated in Jeremiah 48:24, 41, etc. references the home of Judas Iscariot (man of Kerioth), his parallel to the antichrist (2 Thes. 2:3) while identifying Judas then as the only disciple who was outside the land, a half breed Moabite Jew from Syria.

    The Benjamites (Galilaeans) were the first to translate and preach the Scriptures in other languages (Acts 2, 8-11) and once again the Benjamites were more prevalent in the north around Galilee. The tribes of Judah and Benjamin (and some Levites) were the only tribes that had been in captivity in Babylon and a portion of these same tribes are the only ones that returned to Jerusalem. (Ezra 1:5) The house of Judah had been absent from Jerusalem and the land of Judah until the history in Ezra and Nehemiah, therefore, there were none of their own to "blend in with".

    · Jeremiah 6:1 (KJV) O ye children of Benjamin, gather yourselves to flee out of the midst of Jerusalem, and blow the trumpet in Tekoa, and set up a sign of fire in Bethhaccerem: for evil appeareth out of the north, and great destruction.

    It was the Jews of Judaea who rejected Him and had Him crucified.. The Benjamites or Galileans, as a people, took practically no part in the crucifixion of Christ. It was the Jews proper, that is, the tribe of Judah dwelling in Judea who were responsible for that. When, a few days before His crucifixion, Christ said," Your house is left unto you desolate," He was addressing Judaea, not the Benjamites of Galilee: this is completely proved by the fact that several years afterwards the Apostle Paul declared, "Hath God cast away His people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham, of the Tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew." (Romans 11,1-2.)

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