Faith

Ashlady

Member
Faith - is the act of learning/understanding/trusting the revelation that God gave sinners who are dead in sin unable to know God on their own. To know this revelation is the only hope. The bible is the evidence and substance of what we place our faith in. Our Bible is our title deed, which assures the holder of that deed an inheritance. It is a legal security of that promise one trusts while waiting for its fullfillment, which happens before we see the complete reality of it.
The Bible that we have preserved for us has this revelation so that we can know Jesus Christ in His way.
God is only with those that choose to know Him personely, all others are waiting for Judgement, even thought they may seem busy being good, there end is Judgement. This is the faith and there is no other faith.
All other faith are a lie and not of God.
Ash :)
 

MiltW

Member
Great disortation! Yes:D Faith is the key that opens the door to the riches of God. And you are right to say "To know this revelation is the only hope." And indeed, without the revelation we have from God in Holy Scripture, we would be lost in sin.
Consider this, "What is your faith in?"
Is it words on a page? Is it faith itself?
Here is where many find the rub. In all of Scripture, where the rubber meets the road, our faith must be unequivically in Jesus Christ, the arther and finisher of our faith. Not in man's interpritation, not even in Scripture in itself, not in doctrine alone, but in our Lord and Savior.
Our security rests not in a legal security, but in the witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit. In, as you said, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. A relationship that is growing as we trust, understand, learn more of His will.
Indeed Ashlady, all other so called "faiths" are nothing but religiousness, not a living, growing relationship.
So keep up the good work, for as James says, Our actions are the demonstration of our faith, as we show forth in good works the attitudes and likenesses of Christ our Lord. (my somewhat abridged, shortened paraphrase. :) )

Milt
PS sorry if I get a bit long winded. I'm just getting into this and can't help myself.:)
 

RevTim

Beta Tester
Faith - is the act of learning/understanding/trusting the revelation that God gave sinners who are dead in sin unable to know God on their own. To know this revelation is the only hope. The bible is the evidence and substance of what we place our faith in. Our Bible is our title deed, which assures the holder of that deed an inheritance. It is a legal security of that promise one trusts while waiting for its fullfillment, which happens before we see the complete reality of it.
The Bible that we have preserved for us has this revelation so that we can know Jesus Christ in His way.
God is only with those that choose to know Him personely, all others are waiting for Judgement, even thought they may seem busy being good, there end is Judgement. This is the faith and there is no other faith.
All other faith are a lie and not of God.
Ash :)
Good thoughts. I do believe "the faith once delivered to the saints" is the Word of God.
 

Ashlady

Member
Great disortation! Yes:D Faith is the key that opens the door to the riches of God. And you are right to say "To know this revelation is the only hope." And indeed, without the revelation we have from God in Holy Scripture, we would be lost in sin.
Consider this, "What is your faith in?"
Is it words on a page? Is it faith itself?
Here is where many find the rub. In all of Scripture, where the rubber meets the road, our faith must be unequivically in Jesus Christ, the arther and finisher of our faith. Not in man's interpritation, not even in Scripture in itself, not in doctrine alone, but in our Lord and Savior.
Our security rests not in a legal security, but in the witness of the Holy Spirit with our spirit. In, as you said, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. A relationship that is growing as we trust, understand, learn more of His will.
Indeed Ashlady, all other so called "faiths" are nothing but religiousness, not a living, growing relationship.
So keep up the good work, for as James says, Our actions are the demonstration of our faith, as we show forth in good works the attitudes and likenesses of Christ our Lord. (my somewhat abridged, shortened paraphrase. :) )

Milt
PS sorry if I get a bit long winded. I'm just getting into this and can't help myself.:)
Thank you for the time you've taken to reply to this post, but I am not understanding where you are coming from when you say that our faith must not be even in scripture.
Jesus is God come in the Flesh
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word =logos = Gods intelect.
The revelation from God represents Gods thinking and truths, they are obviously not Him in the essense of his being.
The english word the translators used represents a truth which is learned from the greek word "Logos"
Our ability to communicate is our logos.
Our ability to communicate starts with our mind and education, then it is voiced in our learned language, which in this case is english and the pc is my method of communiction.
JOhn was saying that Jesus was the WAY or Person by which all things from God came into existance, so that Jesus was the very person who created.
God said that jesus was KING, and any KING who speaks a Decree, that Decree is said to be HIM.
So therefore our bible is a legal document which we know as a Governmental decree.
Some people may object to this, but Jesus is King, the originator, he made it all His way......The King....a King is a govermental person so that when he speaks, his very words are HIM to the people who hear it; so that the people refer to the words of the KING as being personally HIM.
Logos to the Greek people means, the very intellect of the person who said it.
John is saying that what ever Paul and Himself said and wrote, it was the Decree of King Jesus.
John is saying that the written revelation of God ( which is Jesus before he took on flesh ) became understood when He became a human being.
The written revelation took on flesh.
John is talking to Jews who were the people who wrote the revelation of God.
John is walking them through the truth that the written OT revelation is now in the form of a person, who is God in the flesh.
Just like if I were to read letters from you for 20 years, and then you showed up at the front door, I would say, the letters came to life; I could say, your intellect on paper now lives, so you speak for yourself now personally to me, so that you are the word.
now I can refer to you and explain to others that the letters are now replaced by you personally, only while you are here personally, if you leave, then I have you in letters again.
This is what I believe John is saying while writing this letter.
And thus we must have faith in the Scriptures for they are God's intellect.

Geneva
 

MiltW

Member
Thank you for the time you've taken to reply to this post, but I am not understanding where you are coming from when you say that our faith must not be even in scripture.
Jesus is God come in the Flesh
John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word =logos = Gods intelect.
The revelation from God represents Gods thinking and truths, they are obviously not Him in the essense of his being.
The english word the translators used represents a truth which is learned from the greek word "Logos"
Our ability to communicate is our logos.
Our ability to communicate starts with our mind and education, then it is voiced in our learned language, which in this case is english and the pc is my method of communiction.
JOhn was saying that Jesus was the WAY or Person by which all things from God came into existance, so that Jesus was the very person who created.
God said that jesus was KING, and any KING who speaks a Decree, that Decree is said to be HIM.
So therefore our bible is a legal document which we know as a Governmental decree.
Some people may object to this, but Jesus is King, the originator, he made it all His way......The King....a King is a govermental person so that when he speaks, his very words are HIM to the people who hear it; so that the people refer to the words of the KING as being personally HIM.
Logos to the Greek people means, the very intellect of the person who said it.
John is saying that what ever Paul and Himself said and wrote, it was the Decree of King Jesus.
John is saying that the written revelation of God ( which is Jesus before he took on flesh ) became understood when He became a human being.
The written revelation took on flesh.
John is talking to Jews who were the people who wrote the revelation of God.
John is walking them through the truth that the written OT revelation is now in the form of a person, who is God in the flesh.
Just like if I were to read letters from you for 20 years, and then you showed up at the front door, I would say, the letters came to life; I could say, your intellect on paper now lives, so you speak for yourself now personally to me, so that you are the word.
now I can refer to you and explain to others that the letters are now replaced by you personally, only while you are here personally, if you leave, then I have you in letters again.
This is what I believe John is saying while writing this letter.
And thus we must have faith in the Scriptures for they are God's intellect.

Geneva
AH But you see, We are not saved, redeemed by intellect. Whether is be ours or God's. I'll not qoute the intire passage, but in 1 Corinth. 1:19 "For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." (Isaiah 29:14) Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? ....30 It is because of Him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become our wisdom from God -- that is, our righteouness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord." (Jer. 9:24)."

Yes Jesus is The LOGOS, but that is just the point, even as you made it. He is indeed the Way, the Truth and the Light and no one will see God except by Him, and Him alone.
Let's run over to 1 John. Chapter 2:3-6. "We know that we have come to know him if we obey His commands. The man who says, "I know Him," but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if any one obeys His word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in Him: Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did."

Here are some Scriptures to consider, I have to be going.
John 12:44-50
John 14:1-31

Just as you say, The Word, became flesh. That Word is Jesus Christ. The word in Scripture are not the Word, but the testimony of the witnesses passed down to us as the Holy Spirit has seen fit to reveal to us through them.
I have seen, known those who could quote you verse and line of the Bible, and yet their lives were in shambles, lost deep in sin. They absorbed only the written word, but had no acceptance of the true Word of God, Jesus Christ. They knew it intelectually, but not with the spirit nor with the awakening or inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Our relationship is not with the written word, however sacride and holy we may hold it. But it is with the risen Christ, who is here in His Spirit. For if the word could have saved, there would have no need for Christ to shed His blood. The written Word has lead us to the Living Word. It is HE and HE alone that our faith must be in, as we study and live the commands He has given us in the written Word.

In Christ our Lord,
Milt

I Must go, may the Holy Spirit guide you. We can talk more later, if you like.
 

RevTim

Beta Tester
Our relationship is not with the written word, however sacride and holy we may hold it. But it is with the risen Christ, who is here in His Spirit. For if the word could have saved, there would have no need for Christ to shed His blood. The written Word has lead us to the Living Word. It is HE and HE alone that our faith must be in, as we study and live the commands He has given us in the written Word.
Galatians 3:21-26 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 

MiltW

Member
JOhn was saying that Jesus was the WAY or Person by which all things from God came into existance, so that Jesus was the very person who created.
God said that jesus was KING, and any KING who speaks a Decree, that Decree is said to be HIM.
So therefore our bible is a legal document which we know as a Governmental decree.
Some people may object to this, but Jesus is King, the originator, he made it all His way......The King....a King is a govermental person so that when he speaks, his very words are HIM to the people who hear it; so that the people refer to the words of the KING as being personally HIM.
Logos to the Greek people means, the very intellect of the person who said it.
John is saying that what ever Paul and Himself said and wrote, it was the Decree of King Jesus.
John is saying that the written revelation of God ( which is Jesus before he took on flesh ) became understood when He became a human being.
The written revelation took on flesh.
John is talking to Jews who were the people who wrote the revelation of God.
John is walking them through the truth that the written OT revelation is now in the form of a person, who is God in the flesh.
Just like if I were to read letters from you for 20 years, and then you showed up at the front door, I would say, the letters came to life; I could say, your intellect on paper now lives, so you speak for yourself now personally to me, so that you are the word.
now I can refer to you and explain to others that the letters are now replaced by you personally, only while you are here personally, if you leave, then I have you in letters again.
This is what I believe John is saying while writing this letter.
And thus we must have faith in the Scriptures for they are God's intellect.

Geneva
Let me continue.
Yes If I leave, you are again back to the letters I have written. But I did not die and rise again. Jesus did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill all that is written there about Him.
I would urge you to read most carefully Hebrews. Do not limit yourself to one translation, and pray before you read that God through the Holy Spirit would open your mind and heart to The Word.
You use a lot of the word "was".
Unlike me, Jesus did not go away and leave us with just some letters. Jesus is not just someone who once lived, He is still alive today. Hebrews says He became like us. He suffered in the flesh. He was tempted even as we are. So that He understands our human needs, desires, and temptations. But when He died, He did not leave us alone. He left us a Comforter to guide us into all rightiousness. (John 14 & 15)
Romans clearly states, "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (Rom. 10: 10, 11)
The Word is not simply a legal decree. It is more like the voice of witnesses, testifying to the life of Jesus Christ in the Gospels, and to the revelation of the Holy Spirit of God present in the world and His people in the Acts and the Epistles through to Revelation.
Yes the Word is powerful, but it's power is not in itself, but in our risen Lord. The One, The Only Risen Son Of God. Faith in Him is our only salvation, faith in the Scriptures is the path that leads us, by the Spirit to a saving faith in Him.
And faith in any other being, law, legality, angel, spirit, ancestory, prophet, etc. Is no faith at all.

Milt
 

Ashlady

Member
Thank you for your information, but it seems to me that you are offering "intellect" which you made up your own way, to disprove that "Intellect" is not the only way God comes to sinner to save them.
Jesus, is Jehovah God, which means, "THe God who saves"
now if God saves, does He not have to speak in a language we understand and hear, and when we hear, or read, do we not think on it to repent , do we not have to think who we repent to
and to see where judgment and guilt was paid for by our substitutional sacrifice.
Does not an intellect of a being provide this for us to learn
Can the Holy Spirit lead anyone, believer or unbeliever, without the Bible and/or Bible truths ?
The point is this, If the Bible is not the only revelation of God,
then anyone can claim to have the Holy Spirit and lead, and who can say NO or YES and really know they are right or wrong.
The Bible, The Word of God, The logos of God is the ultimate Judge for us on earth of what is of God and what is not.
YOu only know Jesus by learning His revelation.
The Bible say's that the Holy Spirit's function is to lead to Jesus, all the works of the Holy Spirit has one purpose and one only, To Point to Jesus, once we are citizens of Jesus Kingdom the the Holy Spirit works thru us to spread the same Word that was given to us to become the Lords servants.
If you are stating as LAW from God, that the Holy Spirit is the way to hear God and not the Bible, then you are telling me that that I am not to trust my own intellect nor the intellect the Bible provides, BUT I am to trust your Intellect which you state is from God. Which means, if I don't agreee with you , I don't have the intellect from God which you state you have.
I need to know what it is you learned that is not in the Bible I need to know what God has given you that is apart from the bible, this is very important since you state that your relationship with God is based not only on the Word but on revelation thru the Holy Spirit. I need to know what personel direct revelation you have gotten from God in order to Judge thru the bible if it is of God or not,(if it is I will add it to my bible).I need to know How you came to believe in Jesus if not Thru His Word only?
So I ask, how do you know Jesus without the Bible?
I can not understand how one can have faith in Jesus and not In His Word.
The fact is, no one was ever used by God without God directly appointing them to speak or write.
If there was a written revelation to use, then God caused them to have it and learn it and use their intellect trained in God's revelation to teach others Gods word and NOT THEIR OWN.
One can not place themselves into the Bible as the ONE whom the Holy Spirit speaks through, without ever being appointed by God.
In first Cor 1:19, if taken in context one knows that Paul was speaking of the GREEK philosophers who said their intellect and intelligence, along with their knowledge, and wisdom was NOT of Paul's God and superior to Paul's God
Paul was answering them.
You see, you say you are led by the Holy Spirit and I say I am also, THUS......You are right and I am right, we will let God sort it out in the end.........in the meantime, I will keep learning the bible for the rest of my life, and following only what the bible says and not what man says.
Ash
 

RevTim

Beta Tester
I wonder if Ash and Milt can go back and carefully re-read each others comments, then if they might not think that perhaps they are both stating one side of a two-sided coin, in a way?

Just a thought.
 

Ashlady

Member
Dear Pastor Tim: Thank you for the observation and I thank you for your gracious comment.
If you will have patience with me I will try and explain what I believe about the Word of God since I am new to this forum it may help to know where I am in my beliefs of the bible.
In our Statement of Faith at our Church it say's: The Holy Bible, composed of the Old and New Testaments, is the uniquely-inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God as originally given. It remains completely trustworthy and is the supreme and final authority we adhere to in all matters of faith and conduct.
I believe Without a doubt the Bible is what it claims to be - the undeniable, authoritative, Word of God to humanity.
Even though God used men with their distinctive personalities and writing styles, God divinely inspired the very words they wrote.
The Bible claims not only to be inspired by God, but to also have the ability to change us and make us ?complete,? thoroughly equipped for every good work.
In the context of the Scriptures, the word inspiration simply means ?God-Breathed.? Inspiration communicates to us the fact the Bible truly is the Word of God
Because God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and completely perfect, His Word will by its very nature have the same characteristics.

Thank you for taking the time to read what is posted.

Ash.......
 

MiltW

Member
Dear Pastor Tim: Thank you for the observation and I thank you for your gracious comment.
If you will have patience with me I will try and explain what I believe about the Word of God since I am new to this forum it may help to know where I am in my beliefs of the bible.
In our Statement of Faith at our Church it say's: The Holy Bible, composed of the Old and New Testaments, is the uniquely-inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God as originally given. It remains completely trustworthy and is the supreme and final authority we adhere to in all matters of faith and conduct.
I believe Without a doubt the Bible is what it claims to be - the undeniable, authoritative, Word of God to humanity.
Even though God used men with their distinctive personalities and writing styles, God divinely inspired the very words they wrote.
The Bible claims not only to be inspired by God, but to also have the ability to change us and make us ?complete,? thoroughly equipped for every good work.
In the context of the Scriptures, the word inspiration simply means ?God-Breathed.? Inspiration communicates to us the fact the Bible truly is the Word of God
Because God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and completely perfect, His Word will by its very nature have the same characteristics.

Thank you for taking the time to read what is posted.

Ash.......
Yes I think Pastor tim may just be right there. I only became concerned when you talked of Jesus being the intellect, and began saying "was." A red light went off in my heart, because there are many "religious" people who will worship Jesus as a prophet or angel or something other than The Son of God He is.
If I upset you, It was not to argue, but in hopes of making you think about where your faith is and to encourage you to a closer relationship with Christ. Is that OK? :)

Milt
 

Ashlady

Member
Yes I think Pastor tim may just be right there. I only became concerned when you talked of Jesus being the intellect, and began saying "was." A red light went off in my heart, because there are many "religious" people who will worship Jesus as a prophet or angel or something other than The Son of God He is.
If I upset you, It was not to argue, but in hopes of making you think about where your faith is and to encourage you to a closer relationship with Christ. Is that OK? :)

Milt
We must always be very vigilant and careful of false assumption/ judgment of people, no one can possibly know the standing of another human being with God. Only God knows for a fact.
People love to quote "Satan quotes scriptures better than anyone"...... .so what.....It still does not give us license to Judge another's standing with God.
I am always conserned when is see people re-phrase what I said to say what I never said, and then answer what I did not say as if I said it...:shock: wow I think I just made up a new phrase hehehehe.
Anyway good luck Milt and I hope you do not confuse a red street light while driving for a red light going off in your head.:p :grin:
 

MiltW

Member
Anyway good luck Milt and I hope you do not confuse a red street light while driving for a red light going off in your head.:p :grin:
Thanks for the :p . And yes, Satan knows the Bible well. How else could he confuse so many. But Sister, I would also be amiss if I did not, shall we say, "try the spirits." For many indeed are lead astray by diverse teachings that have nothing to do with the Gospel of Christ.
And I will watch out for those red lights.:)
Milt
 
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