Jehovah's Witness - No Hope!!! (CULT)

eddiefrye

New Member
:!:
I was visited by two twin sisters today, that have been Jehovah's Winess since they were seven years old. :sad:Sadly they do not believe in the Trinity nor do they believe in having a soul and they have no hope in going to Heaven but would rather remain here on earth. These poor ladies are brain washed. Any comments or direction would be welcomed in how to deal with different beliefs when encountered.:?:
 

Gus

Member
Eddiefrye:
For my self I find it hard to chat with these folks. I know when I was working in a factory, there was a young man working there. He love to look for me when I took my lunch break and would start in on me, I tried to talk but it never seem to do much good, what worked for me in this case was to just keep my mouth shut and let him rave on. My fellow workers thought of me for doing that.
I think if you know your scriptures real well and can counter what they say and get them off tract they fold and say WE will bring back a learned person to talk to you because if you get them off there line of speech they get frustrated and leave.
Now where my wife and I live there is one right in the next apartment and ?she learn long ago not to speak to me about it. She really believes she is not going to die.
I really feel prayer is the only answer, because saying the word to them only creates more dialog and no end to it only fluctuation accurse.
 

Rebekah Staggs

Active Member
Staff member
We keep Chick Tracts by the door to hand out. Someone higher up has been known to bring it back to us...

We're never been visited more than once or twice from each door to door group.
 

terrpn

Active Member
Eddie Fry,

Stick to the deity of Christ........., you need not go anywhere else. They will attempt to take you to hell, the spirit, soul sleep, Christ's resurrection and so on. You put a crack in their foundation and the others are mute.

Keep in mind they have no "authority" but themselves. I enjoy using their own New World (Mis-) Translation which I consider to be nothing more than a comic book.

Ask them who Lord of lords is in their own bible (Dt. 10:17) which they will answer Jehovah..........., then have them-- in their own translation ask them who Lord of lords is in Rev. 17:14.......... the Book says it is the LAMB!!?? There are many examples one can use.

I also ask them since they believe the Greek is superior to the English to go to their own Kingdom Interlinear Translation (KIT) and read over Col. 1:15-17 and see that their own publication inserts the word "other" four times!! Ask them to read it without the word "other"......... They also like to mistranslate "firstborn" into first created. There is a Greek word for created and it ain't used here!

Col. 1:20 And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto HIMSELF: by HIM...........

In Jn. 1:1 which they like to murder saying that Jehovah is a "big" God and the "word" is a lesser god........... means they also believe in 2 gods! 1 Cor. 8:4-6.

In John 1:1, John goes behind creation, goes further than Gen. 1:1 and shows that someone was already there. The "word"--- preincarnate Jesus Christ is eternal. Cp. rev. 19:13

Mary gave birth to Jesus, but not to God! The man, Christ Jesus was born--- not the WORD. In Isa. 9:6 for a "son" to be given-- a child had to be born. It ain't rocket science. If you want everlasting life where do you get it? From everlasting life-- Micah 5:2, etc.

He has always been--- and if they don't like it, understand it-- it's a free country and they have a right to be wrong. They can bend at the knee today or they can bow later, but they will bow and confess-- Phil. 2:9-11.

There are many folk here that know better than me who can also help if you need further help.
 

eddiefrye

New Member
What is it about the blood, that they will not take a tranfusion? They claim that a transfusion is like drinking it. Drinking and transfusion are two totally different things, right?

I stick with John 3:16 but it is like they are always right and will not read, listen nor go to anything that you ask them but want you to do what they ask. This turns me off really quick.

I really need some help here, in understand there mind set. Specific information with scripture.

Thanks
 

jerrybouey

Member
Ask them if they follow Jesus or worship Him. Then point out if He is not God, but a god, that they are committing idolatry by worshipping or following another/false god - because the Bible clearly teaches from cover to cover that there is only one true God. They won't like that, but it might make them think.
 

terrpn

Active Member
What is it about the blood, that they will not take a tranfusion? They claim that a transfusion is like drinking it. Drinking and transfusion are two totally different things, right?
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1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

They're trying to make things that are not the same.... the same.

Honestly.... brother you can do the research yourself on their heresies, BUT you do not let them take you here and take you there. You can get anything "out" (get it:?) of the Bible if you take it out of context, distort, twist, add, take way............, YEA HATH GOD SAID.

Study up and defend what you believe. Remember they train to trip you up and believe their working their way to "paradise" by doing so. Of course they can't even rightly divide their Bible (and they don't even have a bible) to see that Paradise was OT, Abraham's Bosum and is no longer there!

They believe Jesus Christ was Michael the Archangel! If another opportunity comes....., get them to show you one verse that backs up their heresy; they can't!

They have no power, a distorted truth and a dead spirit. I try to have grace with them, but sometimes I admit it's hard. That's a soul that will burn forever-- not just a person. I do take offence being that I'm a medically retired veteran who served my country 'till no longer able that they will not serve our country, defend it, will not honour our flag, will not vote, consider it wicked-vile and will not step into any church, on and on...........

I'm saved, redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ-- GRACE, unmerited favor, I did nothing to deserve it---------, why would someone want to become a JW, have to get baptized in their building, into their organization, have to work door to door, made subject-- put under the yoke of a bunch of heretics, disassociate myself with anyone who is not a JW, submit myself to a distortion of the WORD of God, worldly publications (Watchtower, Awake Magazines which supercede God's Word) etc., etc.

They have nothing to offer to convince me what they have is better than what I possess.

My Bible says.......... Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I couldn't fall out of the body of Christ if I tried.

Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Terrpn
 
What is it about the blood, that they will not take a tranfusion? They claim that a transfusion is like drinking it. Drinking and transfusion are two totally different things, right?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

They're trying to make things that are not the same.... the same.

Honestly.... brother you can do the research yourself on their heresies, BUT you do not let them take you here and take you there. You can get anything "out" (get it:?) of the Bible if you take it out of context, distort, twist, add, take way............, YEA HATH GOD SAID.

Study up and defend what you believe. Remember they train to trip you up and believe their working their way to "paradise" by doing so. Of course they can't even rightly divide their Bible (and they don't even have a bible) to see that Paradise was OT, Abraham's Bosum and is no longer there!

They believe Jesus Christ was Michael the Archangel! If another opportunity comes....., get them to show you one verse that backs up their heresy; they can't!

They have no power, a distorted truth and a dead spirit. I try to have grace with them, but sometimes I admit it's hard. That's a soul that will burn forever-- not just a person. I do take offence being that I'm a medically retired veteran who served my country 'till no longer able that they will not serve our country, defend it, will not honour our flag, will not vote, consider it wicked-vile and will not step into any church, on and on...........

I'm saved, redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ-- GRACE, unmerited favor, I did nothing to deserve it---------, why would someone want to become a JW, have to get baptized in their building, into their organization, have to work door to door, made subject-- put under the yoke of a bunch of heretics, disassociate myself with anyone who is not a JW, submit myself to a distortion of the WORD of God, worldly publications (Watchtower, Awake Magazines which supercede God's Word) etc., etc.

They have nothing to offer to convince me what they have is better than what I possess.

My Bible says.......... Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I couldn't fall out of the body of Christ if I tried.

Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Terrpn
All of what you said is good, and the Deity of Christ is central, but they have been taught to argue against that and will simply refuse to believe it. Where the rubber meets the road is what does their religion do for them? If it was good, then they would have everlasting life.

That makes the first question to ask them, (or any religionist for that matter) "Do you presently have everlasting life?" per 1 John 5:13 and John 3:16, 36. Their answer is generally bewilderment or distraction, because they do not understand what everlasting life is. From there on the door is opened for you to tell them what it is, and how it is obtained. From that point all of the major Christian doctrines (atonement, resurrection, Deity of Christ etc.) will fall out naturally. You will have to work hard though to keep them on this topic long to expound it fully to them.

The hard part I have always found is that because they work in pairs, one of them may be attentive, but the other one will cause a disruption to ensure that neither of them are subdued of the Spirit. If you had a second person with you so there would be two separate conversations going on, you might be able to mitigate this, and possible break through to at least one of them.

And yet we must remember through our best laid plans and intentions, "Salvation is of the Lord."


CRP
 

terrpn

Active Member
All of what you said is good, and the Deity of Christ is central, but they have been taught to argue against that and will simply refuse to believe it. Where the rubber meets the road is what does their religion do for them? If it was good, then they would have everlasting life.

That makes the first question to ask them, (or any religionist for that matter) "Do you presently have everlasting life?" per 1 John 5:13 and John 3:16, 36. Their answer is generally bewilderment or distraction, because they do not understand what everlasting life is. From there on the door is opened for you to tell them what it is, and how it is obtained. From that point all of the major Christian doctrines (atonement, resurrection, Deity of Christ etc.) will fall out naturally. You will have to work hard though to keep them on this topic long to expound it fully to them.

The hard part I have always found is that because they work in pairs, one of them may be attentive, but the other one will cause a disruption to ensure that neither of them are subdued of the Spirit. If you had a second person with you so there would be two separate conversations going on, you might be able to mitigate this, and possible break through to at least one of them.

And yet we must remember through our best laid plans and intentions, "Salvation is of the Lord."


CRP
Amen brother.............. I totally agree. It is and should always be about eternal life-- do you have it and the source of that life. When confronting anyone........... they either have their own righteousness or the righteousness of Jesus Christ. Seeing that should not be to difficult when asking the right questions.

I don't mean to belittle or take away from any other doctrine when I refer only to the Deity of Christ because all doctrine is regarded as important, but when I refer to the Deity I reckon I'm being selfish and reflecting only my past experiences. You sound rehearsed in what they believe where there are dozens of places you can go to refute they're beliefs.

I reckon mostly though I'm just a sucker for arguing---- just the flesh.

The local Kingdom Hall's in my area must teach, point them to ask folk about the Trinity......, you know the typical, Trinity is not in the Bible-- yadda, yadda (of course Godhead is) which I seem to be somewhat (not that I always am) more successful showing them that Jesus Christ is God, God manifest in the flesh, etc. in lieu of them trying to drag me around to their other heretical beliefs.

Not sure 'bout other folks confrontations, experiences--- but probably better than 80% of my confrontations have been John 1:1, Colossians 1:15-17, Michael-- Christ is the "first created" and the Trinity. It's always when they have exhausted their vocabulary on these subjects do they try to go somewhere else and I do my best to hold them there and get a few licks in.

But of course saying in all I've said, @ that point your arguing and debating--- which is just what they thrive on! It's hard and tempting not to go there sometimes. I believe in defending the BOOK, but I must concede without discernment and wisdom @ times whom are you trying to exhalt?

When they they travel in pairs there is always a Sr. and Jr. JW. If you can get somewhat to sidetrack the elder JW, the Jr. JW is vulnerable because he's in training (so to say).

Aren't you glad God saves us from religion.................

And yes............... it is refreshing to hear-- SALVATION IS OF THE LORD. We don't and are incapable. Never under estimate the power of prayer. If you want power, knowledge, wisdom, compassion---- you gotta pay the power bill.

Paul said...Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Don't you know that most of your "modern-newer" translations remove "of Christ" making it another GOSPEL.

Bless you..........
Terrpn
 

jerrybouey

Member
Isn't it interesting that Seventh Day Adventists also teach that Jesus Christ is the Archangel Michael. You can find this in The Great Controversy. If there is an Index at the back of a particular copy, you can find this info by looking up Michael the Archangel. Many SDA's will outright deny this, but when you show them that Ellen G. White actually taught that in one of her books, they are at a loss to answer.
 

eddiefrye

New Member
Why would Satan tempt God? Jehovah's Witness Question

:?::???:
Please help me with this one. Here is the email conversation. Thanks.

Eddie,
Let me ask you this question.
Why would Satan tempt God? He must have known that this trick would be all over heaven, I mean you know that "God" himself would be disguised as Jesus on the earth. Satan must have known that God could not be tempted yet Satan went ahead and tempted God 3 times. And it can't be the reason that when you're spirit and become flesh that you forget who you are because Jesus when he gave up his life knew when he was in heaven that he was coming down to earth to die. So how do you explain the divinity split. And who was running things in heaven when God was walking the earth and when he died?
And Satan, didn't he know that he was wasting his time trying to tempt God himself? What was the reason behind that temptation? Can you connect all the dots there for me....
 

marty

Beta Tester
Eddie, I'm not very good at 'Sword' fighting, but consider this:

God Almighty is the Head of the Holy Trinity - When Jesus was baptized, He received the Holy Spirit, i.e. Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: so the Trinity was in action. Jesus spoke of, and to, His Father the whole time he was on earth. I don't believe God is confined to a 'body' like we are, and I don't think God can be defined in human terms - we just don't have the ability to 'get' the concept of Him in our finite state.

So God the Father was still in charge when Jesus walked the earth. Jesus was with our Father before the world began, i.e. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Like I said, I don't think we can understand it, but what good would it do to be a Trinity if you still had to move and exist as one entity?

satan thinks he's so smart that he can prevail against God. He really thinks he can pull off the victory. It's his ego. He just can't accept that he's defeated. As for this verse: Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible states:
To be tempted. The word to tempt, in the original, means to try, to endeavour, to attempt to do a thing; then, to try the nature of a thing, as metals by fire; then, to test moral qualities by trying them, to see how they will endure; then, to endeavour to draw men away from virtue by suggesting motives to evil. This is the meaning here, and this is now the established meaning of the word in the English language.
I think that the temptation or test was for satan, not for Jesus. God was showing the devil how powerless he is against Jesus - even in His weakened fleshly condition, satan was no match for Jesus. I haven't specifically looked into it, but it does seem to me that Jesus didn't have any further 'face-to-face' confrontations with satan during His time on earth. satan had to work on the people apart from Jesus, not on Jesus Himself. If I'm wrong about that, someone will straighten me out, I'm sure.

Well, I hope these thoughts give you something to consider.
 
Re: Why would Satan tempt God? Jehovah's Witness Question

:?::???:
Please help me with this one. Here is the email conversation. Thanks.

Eddie,
Let me ask you this question.
Why would Satan tempt God?
The simple answer is that God required it so that man could not say that Christ was not tempted. Satan as a self-exalting fiend was a willing participant.
He must have known that this trick would be all over heaven, I mean you know that "God" himself would be disguised as Jesus on the earth. Satan must have known that God could not be tempted yet Satan went ahead and tempted God 3 times. And it can't be the reason that when you're spirit and become flesh that you forget who you are because Jesus when he gave up his life knew when he was in heaven that he was coming down to earth to die. So how do you explain the divinity split.
Satan is not omniscient, and was not below attempting to exalt himself above God in heaven. One would think after his first failure, given any other opportunity, he WOULD try again.
And who was running things in heaven when God was walking the earth and when he died?
The omnipresent God.

You might want to remind him that death is merely separation of body from soul and spirit, not cessation of soul and spirit. (1 Kings 17:21-22)
And Satan, didn't he know that he was wasting his time trying to tempt God himself?
Didn't stop him the first time, why would anyone think it would stop him a second time?
What was the reason behind that temptation?
As part of the reconciliation of the mediator, Christ had to experience temptation so that 'in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin' would be included in the Bible.
Can you connect all the dots there for me....
I hope so. The guy sounds like a JW apologist.

This might help him.
http://www.carm.org/doctrine/2natures.htm


CRP
 

garymax

Member
I have to agree with the earlier post about the deity of Christ. In all of my years as a Christian, I have found that the one distinguishing characteristic between Christianity and the cults is the deity of Christ.

Keep it focused on that. Because if the cultist does not believe in His Deity, you have nothing further to discuss!

Who cares what their religion does or does not do for them? Obviously they believe it does something or else they would not be knocking on your door!

Only the light of God's Word (which is spirit and life) has the power to penetrate through the error into their hearts. You cannot reason with them. They will block it out as their minds have been filled with false doctrine.

Also, do not try to argue Greek or Hebrew with them. Granville sharp's rule in John 1:1 concerning an anarthrous predicate noun still being definite is of no value to them.

Just keep giving them scripture. Or better yet, like one poster said, give them a chick track then send them on their way.
 
Hello from Romania!
I am a Missionary here (originally from Michigan) and have seen an increase in the JW movement over here.
Firstly, I do not engage in conversations with JW's - I shut it down straight away, because I am not going to get into disputations with the seriously impaired doctrine. (Rom 16:17; 2Tim 2:23; Titus 3:9a)
I inform them that they have just initiated a conversation with a Baptist Preacher, and they often walk away.

But something I do take from each and every incident I see or hear about is this:
WHY are WE Christians not so active in getting the Gospel of Jesus Christ out to every door like these false gospel dealer's are?
WHY do WE not spend so much time in learning OUR FAITH, as they do in learning theirs?

I have been in churches all over America, and many in Eastern Europe, preaching this very thought. WHY DO WE NOT GO?
I am amazed at the dollars we pour into Missions, but yet the amount of calories burned, minutes spent, on taking the TRUE GOSPEL is sorely lacking.
Truth is, we find it easier to put our wallet into missions than our body.
No doubt, "Missions" is in desperate condition financially because of the US dollar falling way behind, we do need the funds for those of us who do GO. But I'd rather see my Teammates back in the US at least "warming up" to get into the game!

We pray always for churchfolk to just go - go next door, go to the family, go to the co-worker. Not everyone is called to go far away.
BUT.... GO!
 

eddiefrye

New Member
Hello from Romania!
I am a Missionary here (originally from Michigan) and have seen an increase in the JW movement over here.
Firstly, I do not engage in conversations with JW's - I shut it down straight away, because I am not going to get into disputations with the seriously impaired doctrine. (Rom 16:17; 2Tim 2:23; Titus 3:9a)
I inform them that they have just initiated a conversation with a Baptist Preacher, and they often walk away.

But something I do take from each and every incident I see or hear about is this:
WHY are WE Christians not so active in getting the Gospel of Jesus Christ out to every door like these false gospel dealer's are?
WHY do WE not spend so much time in learning OUR FAITH, as they do in learning theirs?

I have been in churches all over America, and many in Eastern Europe, preaching this very thought. WHY DO WE NOT GO?
I am amazed at the dollars we pour into Missions, but yet the amount of calories burned, minutes spent, on taking the TRUE GOSPEL is sorely lacking.
Truth is, we find it easier to put our wallet into missions than our body.
No doubt, "Missions" is in desperate condition financially because of the US dollar falling way behind, we do need the funds for those of us who do GO. But I'd rather see my Teammates back in the US at least "warming up" to get into the game!

We pray always for churchfolk to just go - go next door, go to the family, go to the co-worker. Not everyone is called to go far away.
BUT.... GO!
I would have to agree with you for those that are called into the mission field outside of their norm or what they are accustomed.

The local church I attend here supports a few specific missionaries as well as the missionaries the SBC supports. We also support a children?s home and a young man already in his own homeland attending a theological university. These would also fall under the few specific that we as a local church support. One thing I like about how the church I attend supports an overseas/foreign/international missionary is we support a young man that is attending a theological university within his culture and when he graduates he will already be ready in his own culture to share the gospel and this comes at a significant cost savings and better use of God's money that he has provided for us to use for his Kingdom growth.

I will share your story with the local church and lift you and all missionaries in prayer as well as ask God to put a stumbling block on the JW's work.

God Bless and Thank You - Your Brother in Christ,
Eddie
 
Thanks Bro. Eddie for holding us all up in prayer. It is much needed.

I don't want to hi-jack this thread off topic, so I may start another with this topic of "Successful Missions" which is so dear to my heart.

As wrong as the JW doctrine is, their approach is correct. THAT is the big problem. Because it works the way TRUE Gospel was designed to be spread, it has the ability to seem "right" to the person unfamiliar to the Bible.
But then, that is how satan operates, isn't it! :shock:

Har voua si Pace de la Dumnezeu Tatal si de la Domnul nostru Isus Cristos.
(Grace and peace be with you from God our Father and from our Lord Jesus Christ.)
AMIN!
Bro. Tom
 

john.a

Active Member
Before the Lord took dealing with me, and I lived in my own sinful way, I would have shut the door in every Jehovah?s Witness? face, and thought nothing of it. (In fact I thought of no mans religion)
After the Lord took dealing with me, and I were gloriously saved, I would have conversation with them when they called, and I was amazed of how they knew the scriptures, and often closed the door feeling defeated, yet I always learnt from them, as I would look up their scriptures that they give me to read. (In my KJV). Like many Christians I hated them for what they were, a cult from hell, encouraging other?s to the same destination as themselves.
After some years of research into the cult, I pray now that the Lord would send them to my door,
You know a majority do love God and are very genuinely sincere that they are serving God; some are first; second & third generation jw, which means that their parents and grandparents before them were in the organization, therefore they knew nothing else but what they were born in too.
However, thank God, many are leaving this cult, and are being liberated, for the first time in their lives. I belong to TowerWatch discussion board were exjw share with others their testimonies of how the Lord took them out from among this cult and saved them spiritually. And no, I am not an exjw I have never been one and by Gods Grace never will be one but I do have compassion for the individual jw, their doctrine is from the pit of hell.
So those who cannot talk to the individual Jehovah?s Witness, please pray for those of us who can.

1Tim1:15. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
 
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