Parsing and grammar tools

[Alex]

Here's a suggestion for future SwordSearcher upgrades -- please include parsing and grammar tools (e.g. tense, mood, voice, etc.). I presently use Blue Letter Bible which is free, fortunately, but I would love to have those features within the same SwordSearcher software. Perhaps to have an option like how the mouse-over for the KJVSL works: mouse over a word to parse it.

 

[Eric]

I'll be interested to hear what Brandon thinks of this suggestion. I recall back when I used Online Bible briefly (maybe 20 or more years ago). It had all the possible combinations of parsings (conjugations & declensions) number coded. Probably that data is available in the public domain somewhere. However, I would recommend that anyone who works with such data compare several sources, since sometimes some interpretation is involved and different sources parse things differently.

 

[RevTim]

Here's a suggestion for future SwordSearcher upgrades -- please include parsing and grammar tools (e.g. tense, mood, voice, etc.). I presently use Blue Letter Bible which is free, fortunately, but I would love to have those features within the same SwordSearcher software. Perhaps to have an option like how the mouse-over for the KJVSL works: mouse over a word to parse it.

This would be a very helpful feature. But there may be copyright restrictions / expenses prohibiting it's inclusion at this time. That would be my guess.

 

[brandonmorse]

Just wanted to bump this up as it would really help my studies. I use swordsearcher a lot and am tremendously blessed by it. At times, I'm still having to go to BLB or e-Sword's Greek NT TR+ module to get the Tense, Mood, Voice, etc.. Just recently I had to use to point out that 1Corinthians 14:34 was in the indicative mood and thus a command and not a suggestion of Paul's.

In any case, I have no idea as to how to make a module but am willing to whatever I can (as time allows) to make this a feature available on SwordSearcher.

 

[Eric]

1Corinthians 14:34 was in the indicative mood and thus a command and not a suggestion of Paul's.

I think you meant "imperative mood" rather than "indicative mood". A search for *τωσαν in the TR module that comes with SwordSearcher yields 25 matches in 22 verses. As you will notice when looking at those hits, the typical English rendering of "let" is used. That's because English does not have a third person imperative mood form. There are other ways the Greek third person imperative can be translated in English, depending on context, including "must", "has to" or similar. But "let" is typical, and in many cases probably the best option.

One thing to keep in mind is that in Greek one spelling of a word (declined form) can be imperative (command) or indicative (stating a fact), depending on context and, when it is inconclusive, depending on interpretation.

E.g., in John 14:1b, Jesus said, πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε. In the KJV it is "ye believe [indicative] in God, believe [imperative] also in me". The Greek word forms are identical, so strictly based on the Greek forms the options for that clause are:
(1) ye believe in God, believe also in me (indicative, imperative, as KJV)
(2) ye believe in God, ye believe also in me (indicative, indicative)
(3) believe in God, believe also in me (imperative, imperative)
(4) believe in God, ye believe also in me (imperative, indicative)

What I do not like about morphology coding is that usually the creators of it have already done the disambiguation. I would prefer that it be listed according to morphological form without considering context or interpretation. So in an interlinear for John 14:1b, I would prefer to see it listed as "indicative or imperative". I often look at Newberry's Interlinear in Logos Bible Software (one of the few things I use Logos for), and it also disambiguates according to the compiler's interpretation. Therefore finding the exact form in the TR module in SwordSearcher and seeing where else it is used in the NT and looking at the morphological parsing for other hits can be helpful to reveal such things.

Another thing is that sometimes morphology in interlinears does not strictly match the glosses (rough translations) provided in those I/Ls. E.g., in Newberry's I/L at John 1:4, the morphology for the first instance of πιστεύετε says it's imperative (which would be "believe" or "believe ye", but it glosses it as "ye believe", which is really indicative in English. The second instance of πιστεύετε has morphology saying it's indicative, but the gloss is "also on me believe", which is imperative in English. To be indicative the "ye" needs to be supplied before the word "believe", i.e., it should be "ye believe" if it's indicative.

All this to say: watch out when using morphology tools!

 

[wsbones]

I agree that these are good posts.

I find it hard to "correct" the English in the KJV. The scholars who translated it knew more that I ever will about the original languages. So for me Swordsearcher works great. I like to search and compare words and phrases, and SS makes that really easy. I don't mean to disparage original language work. I just want to be positive about SS.

 

[brandonmorse]

Absolutely right on. I meant imperative and was probably thinking of something else while I was writing it (I do that often...).

I'm a novice in all forms but having such tools do help me muddle through when I need it. I seem to find myself talking to a lot of people in non-mainline cults out there that use a lot of different versions and going to the Greek is very helpful at times. I'm a Textus Receptus guy but most people don't even know what I mean by saying that.

Anyways, I would even be willing to donate money (though I don't have much so that may not be much of a motivation...ha!) to help in the cause to get something like this in SwordSearcher. I just love how Sword Searcher flows and feels in my experience with it.

For clarification, I don't use the Greek just for cults. It's just been a recent thing. The Greek is just for me to go deeper for the most part.

 

[jj58]

This would be a very helpful feature. But there may be copyright restrictions / expenses prohibiting it's inclusion at this time. That would be my guess.

Yes, I have to bounce around to do word studies, well.

There are Interlinear Bibles with links to Strong's, as well as Tense, Mood, Voice information, in e-Sword, and others (public domain).
I have no idea how to transform an e-Sword module to SwordSearcher, but it would be a blessing to MANY of us to have TMV available!

 

[jj58]

I agree that these are good posts.

I find it hard to "correct" the English in the KJV. The scholars who translated it knew more that I ever will about the original languages. So for me Swordsearcher works great. I like to search and compare words and phrases, and SS makes that really easy. I don't mean to disparage original language work. I just want to be positive about SS.

I don't think we are talking about "correcting" the KJV. Rather we are looking at gaining insights into the nature of the action that is available in the TMV information. Robertson an Vincent are helpful, but may not always cover a particular word, phrase of verse that is of interest to the student. Perhaps there is way to decipher the Greek tense behind the KJV translation, a set of "rules," as it were. If there are rules, I would love to know them.

I would also love to see a Strongs that includes TMV info.