No BDB or Thayers?

C

Chris Engelsma

Guest
I am surprised that there is no module(s) containing the lexicons of Brown, Driver, & Briggs for the OT and Thayer's for the NT. Both are widely available in the public domain. ?
 

Brandon Staggs

Administrator
Staff member
No, they are not available for SwordSearcher. I have not found a source of these that actually matches my printed copies and it is unclear to me what the source of the revisions are.
 

Regie

Active Member
I have found this work in another bible program and I just do not understand how one software can get permission (and/or do it without permission) and SwordSearcher cannot.

Anyway, I suppose it is ok for us to copy from the other one and put it into SwordSearcher for our own use. Right? I have started doing just that - not sure why other than for other people if it ever is possible that we can share it with others, for I am no Greek scholar by any stretch of the imagination, but can see how this type thing can be of use to a layman of the lowest order.

I am having a problem. Maybe someone can advise me what to do to correct it.

When I have created a module and named it Thayer, I copy precisely the name of each entry as it is in Strongs. I then copy in the Thayer definition. When I view that entry in Strongs, the Thayer one shows up highlighted. However, when I am viewing the Thayer entry, the Strongs entry does not highlight. If I am on entry #8 in Thayer and switch to Strongs, #8 will not be showing in Strongs, but #1 will. What could be causing that? Is there some way I can make the two synchronize?

Is it possible that 2 or more of us could work on the same project and share with each other - perhaps with it going only to the two of us or would that be illegal and something that we could not share even with each other?

Maybe these other software people pay some kind of premium for some things for their use. In fact I think Brandon mentioned that once - right Brandon?

Thanks for any help anyone can offer on my questions. Maybe you can answer me privately if necessary.

MGB,
Regie
p.s. SwordSearcher has been and remains my favorite program, no matter what any other program has to offer for my own private use to copy for myself.
 

marty

Beta Tester
No, they are not available for SwordSearcher. I have not found a source of these that actually matches my printed copies and it is unclear to me what the source of the revisions are.
Thank you, Brandon, for keeping the materials in SwordSearcher true to their original sources. You keep SwordSearcher a reliable resource by your diligence. :)
 

5UKM

Member
I'm with you all the way there Marty. SwordSearcher is the bee's knees of Bible study. And to think I used to lug around a suitcase full of books when joining & leaving ships over some 30 years. Today it would be a laptop & small monitor, & I'd have a mountain of books, all neatly co-operating to show me around God's Word.
Thank you Brandon, also those others who contribute extra modules. And I have to say this forum is my first call whenever I fire up the computer, thank you too, those who are regular contributors, it makes for an interesting life ( I'm Old !)
 

Regie

Active Member
I agree with both of you last two responders. However, I was just reaching out to see if it is ok for 2 or more of us to work on the same thing, especially if it is not under copyright (or to share between the two of us ONLY, not to be published in the forum, if it is copyrighted) in a combined effort that would relieve the burden on a single person doing the whole work.
 
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marty

Beta Tester
I agree with both of you last two responders. However, I was just reaching out to see if it is ok for 2 or more of us to work on the same thing, especially if it is not under copyright (or to share between the two of us ONLY, not to be published in the forum, if it is copyrighted) in a combined effort that would relieve the burden on a single person doing the whole work.
I actually wasn't answering your post (sorry) - I was thanking Brandon for not just throwing any available material into SwordSearcher. It takes a lot of effort and diligence to keep everything legit, and he does that FOR US so we can trust that the material included in SS is true to the source.

I don't know much about copyrights and public domain stuff. You could always contact the copyright holder and ask if they have any objections to your collaborative work for your own use, or even to distribute. That would be the safest way to go. :)
 
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Brandon Staggs

Administrator
Staff member
There is no copyright issue with using BDB or Thayer's. The issue is the source. What most people have online as BDB/Thayer's is most definitely not BDB/Thayer's.

I wouldn't recommend spending a bunch of time on this as a third-party module project. I do have another source that purports to be BDB/Thayer's that I need to verify when I get the books out of storage (they are currently unavailable because of moving). Mainly though, the needs of linking/etc make it a tough one to "do right" through Forge. It will require internal code support to do it like Strong's.

But to be upfront about it, more original-language tools are just not a priority for me, when I have so much on my wish-list that will benefit the majority of users who have no use for original language tools.

Regie, with regards to the linked tabs, it could be an issue of text encoding. Without looking at the content at a binary level, I can't be sure.
 

Regie

Active Member
I actually wasn't answering your post (sorry) - I was thanking Brandon for not just throwing any available material into SwordSearcher. It takes a lot of effort and diligence to keep everything legit, and he does that FOR US so we can trust that the material included in SS is true to the source.

I don't know much about copyrights and public domain stuff. You could always contact the copyright holder and ask if they have any objections to your collaborative work for your own use, or even to distribute. That would be the safest way to go. :)
Thank you Marty much. I knew. Nothing to be sorry about. May God bless you always.
 

Regie

Active Member
There is no copyright issue with using BDB or Thayer's. The issue is the source. What most people have online as BDB/Thayer's is most definitely not BDB/Thayer's.

I wouldn't recommend spending a bunch of time on this as a third-party module project. I do have another source that purports to be BDB/Thayer's that I need to verify when I get the books out of storage (they are currently unavailable because of moving). Mainly though, the needs of linking/etc make it a tough one to "do right" through Forge. It will require internal code support to do it like Strong's.

But to be upfront about it, more original-language tools are just not a priority for me, when I have so much on my wish-list that will benefit the majority of users who have no use for original language tools.

Regie, with regards to the linked tabs, it could be an issue of text encoding. Without looking at the content at a binary level, I can't be sure.
Thanks Brandon. I have about given up on the idea. As to Greek, I know very little about it. As to Hebrew, absolutely nothing. So, I would be doing a lot of work for very, very little profit to it for myself. So, I might just do a little putting of it into SwordSearcher for comparison purposes to Strongs as I find occasion to check Strongs on something. From what I have seen of the other program, the big Thayer work is mostly over my head anyway.

Thanks for all you do in making SwordSearcher the best program available.
 

Brandon Staggs

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for all you do in making SwordSearcher the best program available.
Everyone, thanks for all the kind words. The encouragement is very helpful and uplifting!
 

Johnny NL

Well-Known Member
Everyone, thanks for all the kind words. The encouragement is very helpful and uplifting!
It is not just "kind words"... YOU Sir, have NO idea how you changed, (mine anyway) my "Bible studying" life.
" SwordSearcher is the NEXT BEST thing, right after the Word of GOD.....right before the wheel...!!!"
Amen, Be Blessed Sir.
 

Ruthlyn

Beta Tester
Everyone, thanks for all the kind words. The encouragement is very helpful and uplifting!
Amen in agreement to all that was said. May the Holy Spirit continue to guide you brother. God bless.
 

Regie

Active Member
Since all the above, I have been working on putting Thayers into SwordSearcher. I am intending for any Greek modules I create to have the same numbers & titles as Strongs. So, thus far, the main thing I have done is to copy the Strongs Greek titles into the Thayer module and at the same time I am making a skeleton copy of it all, in case I ever decide to do any other Greek modules. Someday, if I live long enough, maybe I can at least get that much done and can share the skeleton copy with titles only with anyone else who might want to do a Greek module of some kind for their own use, etc. I'm not doing this work for the benefit of myself - Thayer's unabridged work is too deep for me. I will glean only what I can understand, but IMO what Brandon has provided with the Strongs module in SwordSearcher making it possible to see all the Greek words and highlighting the English words, the combination of that and the unabridged Thayer's just might be all a Greek scholar (not me for sure) needs to dig into the Greek pretty thoroughly.

What would be great in my estimation is for software publishers like Brandon and publishers of other Bible software programs getting together and share ideas with each program having a method of exporting user-created modules in a format that could be used by the other program. Input from users of each could possibly make each program better. SwordSearcher is by far the best program IMO, but there are a few good features in other programs and the other programs have works that would be great to be in SwordSearcher. In other words, I guess, we are all interested in the same thing - spreading God's word. Of course, I understand that there has to be a profit made by all the publishers, but it sure would be best IMO for the Christian world if there could be some coming together somehow.

MGB,
Regie
 

Regie

Active Member
In approximately one week from today I plan to be finished with this project. Hopefully I can share it here and/or share it privately with anyone who wants it. I bought a used book of Thayers Lexicon coded to Strongs. It has been a great help in this project, though a very tedious work, especially since I know very, very little about Greek. Is anyone interested in the work when I finish it? Are you, Chris Engelsma, interested in it? Anyone who wants can tweak this module and make it better if they like. I am not interested in any credit of any kind - just in sharing a good work.
 

old tom

Active Member
I humbly wish to share an experience pertaining to 'Original Languages.'

While I was attending a Memorial Service at a Nursing Home in Elsberry, Missouri for the family of Residents there who had passed away, the facility had a Chaplain come to conduct the service. He was young and it seemed that maybe he wasn't used to ministering personally, one on one. He read his notes and mentioned 2 or 3 different HEBREW Words for the English ones and even attempted to pronounce them.

Honestly, all I'm saying is that when the Hebrew words were given and supposedly explained, the family members just looked bored and indifferent to this attempt of 'unlocking' original languages. It didn't help them. It didn't comfort them. At least, not that I could observe.

It just struck me odd that so many good, decent and gifted ministers wear themselves out unnecessarily dealing with a foreign tongue instead of our native one. I'm not condemning the ministers who do. I just want to let people know that I'm a simpleton and a country boy and I'm not interested in nothing but The Word KJV in English.

Hope this helps another simpleton who may be pressured or inticed to 'get to the original languages.'

God bless.
 

Regie

Active Member
I humbly wish to share an experience pertaining to 'Original Languages.'

While I was attending a Memorial Service at a Nursing Home in Elsberry, Missouri for the family of Residents there who had passed away, the facility had a Chaplain come to conduct the service. He was young and it seemed that maybe he wasn't used to ministering personally, one on one. He read his notes and mentioned 2 or 3 different HEBREW Words for the English ones and even attempted to pronounce them.

Honestly, all I'm saying is that when the Hebrew words were given and supposedly explained, the family members just looked bored and indifferent to this attempt of 'unlocking' original languages. It didn't help them. It didn't comfort them. At least, not that I could observe.

It just struck me odd that so many good, decent and gifted ministers wear themselves out unnecessarily dealing with a foreign tongue instead of our native one. I'm not condemning the ministers who do. I just want to let people know that I'm a simpleton and a country boy and I'm not interested in nothing but The Word KJV in English.

Hope this helps another simpleton who may be pressured or inticed to 'get to the original languages.'

God bless.
I'm right in the same boat with you - a simpleton. However, my pastor has studied and knows the Koine Greek sufficiently that I tackled this project for him and another pastor friend who has much, much more understanding of it than I do. I have just scraped the surface of Greek very slightly and at my age of nearly 80, I have done about all I ever expect to do regarding it. My life consists of just hard work for my beloved pastor and minister friend, who do know Greek but who spend their time in things beyond just hard, tedious clerical work - so they need helpers.
Now, while I agree that we should deeply study God's Word - the KJV mainly IMHO, I think I realize the importance of ministers digging into the Greek of the Bible so they can get the proper applications in finding the best meanings of words in the English of our Bibles. After all, the KJV translators did not have perfect agreement on everything as I understand, and in our KJV we find notes pertaining to such. Add to that the fact that many, many translations change things so much that we end up with tons and tons of variances, especially considering that they use different Greek manuscripts than the TR. So, I think I see the importance of using the Greek language tools available - though you and I can not or do not know how to do so. So I work and do what I can - preachers preach and fulfill what we all need.
MGB,
Regie
 

marty

Beta Tester
I humbly wish to share an experience pertaining to 'Original Languages.'

While I was attending a Memorial Service at a Nursing Home in Elsberry, Missouri for the family of Residents there who had passed away, the facility had a Chaplain come to conduct the service. He was young and it seemed that maybe he wasn't used to ministering personally, one on one. He read his notes and mentioned 2 or 3 different HEBREW Words for the English ones and even attempted to pronounce them.

Hope this helps another simpleton who may be pressured or inticed to 'get to the original languages.'

God bless.
This is how I see the value of looking at the Original Languages - no pressure implied. I totally agree that a Memorial Service isn't the place to conduct an in-depth word study, however, I worked on an old, old dictionary once and was amazed at how the language has changed over the years. Some words now mean the exact opposite of what they did originally, and that's where digging into the original languages is helpful. If I find a passage of scripture very confusing, looking at it with the Hebrew or Greek definitions can be enlightening - and sometimes surprising! :)
 
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